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Unplanned Parenthood … Unplanned Death
By Matt Margolis | September 20, 2003
Former Vermont Governor, and Democratic candidate for President, Howard Dean has said he would veto any parental notification law as President.
Howard Dean, once involved with Planned Parenthood, would rather lead this country down a path where little girls can get abortions � a serious procedure no matter how you feel about the issue � and leave their parents, the people legally and morally responsible for their child, in the dark.
This is an attack on parenthood itself. This is not a pro-life or pro-abortion issue. This is about the welfare of young girls… children. It�s about life and death.
Howard Dean, the left wing, pro-abortion ideologue may as well be working at McDonald�s asking �Would you like an abortion with that?� when a young girl orders a Happy Meal.
He acts all �holier-than-thou� by painting himself as the Messiah against �conservative extremists� who want to curtail the killing of unborn children. He pretends like he cares about people because he is a doctor.
Would you want your family doctor letting your child get an abortion without you knowing?
Howard Dean justified his anti-parental notification stand with a story he told to a NARAL Pro-Choice America Dinner in January of this year:
Let me tell you a story. As many of you know I’m a doctor. I’m an internist, and I take care of all ages pretty much from five to 105, and one time I was sitting in my office, and it was not unusual for young kids to come and talk to me because I knew the whole family, and one time a young lady came into my office who was 12 years old and she thought she might be pregnant. And we did the tests and did the exam and she was pregnant. She didn’t know what to do. And after I had talked to her for a while I came to the conclusion that the likely father of her child was her own father. You explain that to the American people who think that parental notification is a good idea. I will veto parental notification.
Howard Dean, let me tell you a story. A young girl, just passed her 18th birthday, walked into a Planned Parenthood clinic, and wanted an abortion. She didn�t want to tell her dad. She was prescribed RU-486. The abortion didn�t completely work, and she died. You explain to the American people why parental notification is a bad idea. Explain why the parents of young girls should be left in the dark when their children go in for such a serious procedure. You explain to Monty Patterson why parental notification is a bad thing.
Monty Patterson�s daughter, 18-year-old Holly, died Wednesday from taking the abortion pill RU-486.
This girl was a teenager. She�s dead. It was Planned Parenthood who provided the girl with the prescription.
Planned Parenthood issued a statement Thursday night that it was working with the young woman’s family to look into the cause of death.
That should read, �Planned Parenthood is trying to avoid getting sued.�
“A patient who recently sought
health care servicesan abortion at a Planned Parenthood health care center died yesterday at a hospital in Pleasanton,” said Dian Harrison, chief executive officer and president of Planned Parenthood Golden Gate. “The cause of death isunknownpretty obvious at this time … We extend our deepest sympathy to the family. Wewish them strength and support in this tough timehope they don�t file a lawsuit against us.”
This is beyond ridiculous. This organization, poorly named Planned Parenthood, is not only is responsible for the ending of countless unborn children�s lives, but also has the blood of an 18 year old on their hands. The story gets worse:
Monty Patterson said his daughter Holly Patterson had visited Planned Parenthood in Hayward last Wednesday and on Saturday had begun taking drugs prescribed to end her pregnancy. Patterson’s daughter lived with him in Livermore and did not tell him about the pregnancy, he said.
18-year-old Holly, got pregnant, and chose not to tell her father. Now Monty Patterson has to bury his teenage daughter. Holly may have been legally old enough (just barely) to make her own decision, but what about the girls who aren�t legal adults? What about the girls who are 16, 14, or even 12 years old who get pregnant?
Howard Dean would let America�s children die without their parents knowing. It may not be very common, but it happened to Holly Patterson:
She went back into the hospital in the middle of the night Wednesday, and she died at 2 p.m.,” Patterson said. “The doctor told me that she hadn’t aborted all of the fetus, and she had fragments left in her, and she had a massive systemic infection and went into septic shock.”
The abortion killed her.
The abortion killed her.
The abortion killed her.
Last year, the Washington Times reported that the deaths of two women who took RU-486 had prompted the FDA to issue warning letters to physicians.
Three women who took RU-486 later suffered bleeding caused by a ruptured ectopic pregnancy, the Washington Times reported. One woman died from a hemorrhage. Two other women suffered severe systemic bacterial infections after taking the drugs, and one died.
This is not a risk-free procedure. But the pro-abortion movement has made it into such a casual and empowering thing… the ultimate exercise of women�s rights, and reproductive freedom… and let�s not forget privacy. Today, teenage girls can get birth control and abortions completely confidentially. She can go to her school nurse and get condoms without a care in a world.
Yet, I couldn�t even get Tylenol from the school nurse without a note from my parents until I was 18.
This is how completely insane our society is. Little girls getting condoms and abortions like they get their ears pierced and that is their right to privacy being exercised.
“On Sunday, she was crying and crying, and she told me she was having cramps, that she had a bad period,” said Patterson, a home builder who said he had learned of the pregnancy only hours before his daughter died.
He didn�t know. She kept it from him. Perhaps, had he known, he could have been there for her, made sure she had appropriate care � perhaps even counsel her to keep the child and be supportive of her in that respect.No. Now she�s dead. Planned Parenthood�s utopia of �reproductive freedom� and �privacy rights� has killed Monty Patterson�s child and grandchild.
Her choice to conceal her pregnancy from her father ultimately led her down a path that killed her. You know something else about Holly Patterson? Monty Patterson, mourning his daughter said, �She was like an angel to me. She was working, earning money, planning to go to college. She turned 18 on August 29. She had a new car, a red Honda Civic which now sits in the driveway.”
Her life is gone.
Howard Dean is a sickening person to think it�s okay for a 12-year-old girl to be able to get an abortion on demand. I guess Doctor Howard Dean doesn�t care about the risks of an abortion - he just thinks girls should have them - under any circumstance… nothing should stand in her way.
He calls it �abortion rights� or �reproductive freedom.�
That is Doctor Howard Dean. His extreme views on abortion are monstrous. Interestingly enough, Dean, in that same speech to NARAL said in the beginning of his speech �You know we all have our reasons for running. I’m running because I don’t like extremism, and I think extremism has taken over our country.�
Wait a minute, Doctor… people not wanting young girls having abortions without parental consent is extremism?
If that�s extremism, then call me an extremist - I�ll wear the label proudly if that�s what it means.
And what about that story Dean told in that NARAL speech? Had such an incident really occurred, it would not have been an issue of parental notification, it would have been an issue of incest and statutory rape. So, what about the story? On Meet The Press with Tim Russert on June 22, Dean himself admitted the story wasn�t completely true:
RUSSERT: There’s this article in USA Today: �Dean told a powerful story but left out a key fact. What Dean didn’t say was that he knew the father was not responsible, someone else was convicted.� That’s a pretty big omission.
DEAN: I don’t think it’s — omission. A pretty big omission, you mean?
RUSSERT: Yeah. That�s a pretty — to say that…
DEAN: I don�t think it is at all.
RUSSERT: To suggest her father may have been…
DEAN: I thought it was. At the time, I thought it was.
RUSSERT: But when you told that story, you knew otherwise.
DEAN: That�s right.
RUSSERT: Why didn�t you say that?
DEAN: Because it didn�t make any difference.
It didn�t make any difference?
Dean tries to justify his position on parental notification with a false story and it doesn�t make a difference?
Dean is a liar. He was caught using a fake situation to sell his views � to further his own political career � so that children may never have to worry about their parents finding about their being pregnant. Parental notification laws may not have been able to save 18-year-old Holly, but Dean�s policy paves the way for other children who are still minors to undergo a risky procedure without their parents ever knowing - with just as much risk. This is �reproductive freedom,� according to Dean.
Doctor Dean, you explain to Monty Patterson why parental notification is a bad idea.
Topics: The Right Idea |
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September 20th, 2003 at 10:26 am
So matt are you coming out for the abortion surgery instead of the pill?
September 20th, 2003 at 2:57 pm
Hell no, Um Yeah. No method of abortion, be it surgical or chemically induced, is without risk. In fact, according to a study from 2000, maternal death rates for abortion are four times higher than they are for childbirth.
September 20th, 2003 at 4:39 pm
Say they outlaw abortion? What do you think the mortality rate is for using the rusty coathanger method?
September 20th, 2003 at 6:15 pm
I guess we should legalize homicide because clearly laws against it haven’t been effective in ending murder.
September 20th, 2003 at 10:26 pm
Hmmm since you have editing powers you might want to change that. What exactly was your point?
September 20th, 2003 at 10:34 pm
Perhaps I should have made it more clear I was being sarcastic…
Of course, I didn’t think it took a genius to figure that out. Apparently, I have to be a bit more clear considering I do have liberals in my audience…
September 20th, 2003 at 11:03 pm
A very disturbing story Matt. Even more so that I have a very good friend in Livermore, CA with a daughter about that age (I have been there several times).
Dean is a piece of shit. Millions of abortions are not enough - he smugly lies to justify even more. Hell is too good for him - but he still can’t get there fast enough. He’s as repugnant as the feminazis who gloat and cheer on abortions like homers on a baseball card. Thankfully, he’ll soon be as insignificant as that inbred, backwater from which he hails.
Some abortions are good - retroactive ones. Could there be a better candidate than Dumb Yeah? Dumb Yeah, meet rusty hanger!
It’s good to see a young person from Boston with the right sensible frame of mind. I know what you’re up against - I grew up in Needham. Where are you from?
Keep up the good work Matt. Dumb Yeah, better count your hangers. LOL!
September 20th, 2003 at 11:10 pm
If they would get back to teaching the three R’s instead of the emphasis on sex education we wouldn’t have children getting pregnant. They should be taught to obstain from sex until marriage.
September 21st, 2003 at 2:34 am
Matt please remember as a liberal I am much much smarter than you. What exactly was your so called point?
September 21st, 2003 at 9:49 am
The point is Um Idiot is that abortion is a much more serious procedure that the aborition on demand crowd trumpet.
September 21st, 2003 at 10:41 am
Dumb Yeah’s postings are the direct result of putting computers on the short bus. They’d be better used put in a monkey cage.
What generation of incest are you Dumb?
September 21st, 2003 at 2:10 pm
Um Yeah, you never have made any intelligent argument since you have started posted comments here. You have never displayed any aptitude for intelligent debate. Your remarks are regurgitations and cliches that do not reflect intelligence in the least.
I have met smart liberals before. They atleast try to make decent arguments when debating. You, Um Yeah, are not one of them.
Redneck,
I live on the North Shore.
September 21st, 2003 at 8:32 pm
Please, stop the music. I know, I know conservative intellectuals need lauding, but please, stop. Ok here we go. There’s a nasty little word out there that liberals do not have in their dictionary, that word is responsibility. The fact is, sex carries with it certain responsibilities (shivers)and shall we say consequences. The half-aborted um yeah that typically chimes in, faoils to recognize that if people want to have sex they need to face up to their responsibilities. The guy and teh girl. Don’t want them? Well here is the solution. The guy needs to keep his penis in his pants. The girl, needs to keep her legs closed. Hmmm novel; exciting; invigorating! But alsa, liberals cannot have this. It goes back to the fundamental liberal doctrine of entitlement and the “blame someone else” attitude. Can’t geta job? No education? It myst be my parents and the teachers fault. No job? Can’t be because I’m a loser, it must be evil corprate America’s fault. Can’t keep your hormones under control? Must be that damn thing that’s in your girlfriends womb, so let’s kill it! Come on. I have heard better arguments from 5 year olds. But wait maybe we should kill them too. Peter Singer would certainly like too. So let’s see if some girl can’t keep her legs closed, and gets pregnant, and wants an abortion…she should have no other option but the coat hanger. If she is dumb enough to do something like that, well I guess she is getting what she desrves for being that stupid. Maybe we should abort um yeah?
September 21st, 2003 at 8:35 pm
I think the radical redneck has come up with a rather good name for um yeah. Oh wait! It’s dumb, yeah =)
September 21st, 2003 at 10:41 pm
Matt right back at you, like I said you take your daily posts right out of Mallard Fillmore. Razorlips will never have to worry about knocking up another human /or getting knocked up as he/she/it scares small children.
September 21st, 2003 at 11:01 pm
Mallard Fillmore? A creative comic strip…
September 21st, 2003 at 11:22 pm
And Um yeah takes all his arguments from the “Liberal’s Guide to Arguing with Conservatives”
This example here is from page 45.
September 21st, 2003 at 11:30 pm
Quoteth Um whatever “back at you Matt. I’m rubber. You’re glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you.” Wow that was refreshing Um Whatever. Any other schoolyard chants?
September 22nd, 2003 at 12:18 am
I found an interesting link today.
This webpage has links to stories on many many women and girls who died from legal abortions.
September 22nd, 2003 at 9:43 am
They Had “Doctors” Like This In Nazi Germany Too…
…and now we have one just like them, running for President. Matt Margolis has a heartwarming little story about “Doctor”…
September 22nd, 2003 at 12:08 pm
“What sort of death rate will we have from the rusty coat-hanger method”, asks Umm I Forgot.
Well, you know, New York does have the death penalty for murder.
So do a lot of other states.
People who want to murder their own children deserve what they get.
September 22nd, 2003 at 1:20 pm
If a child under 16 needs an abortion, then there is statutory rape involved. By hiding the pregnacy, “Planned” Parenthood is protecting the criminal and harming the child. Parental notification shouldn’t be an option, but a requirement
September 22nd, 2003 at 1:44 pm
[…] http://catholicpundits.com/index.php?id=P84” /> –>
Can of Worms
Matt Margolis has a post on Howard Dean and Planned Parenthood that is already a bit of a minor wa […]
September 22nd, 2003 at 4:43 pm
Your link to the Patterson story redirects back to this page.
September 22nd, 2003 at 4:58 pm
Fixed. Thanks.
September 22nd, 2003 at 5:25 pm
The girl was past 18 anyway and parental notification laws wouldnt apply anyway. Also if you really want to play treat the ball of cells as a seperate person game,then fine. The person is trespassing and the girl in question can do whatever she wants to someone tresspasing on her personal property.
Cannon, so what if it worked in 3rd grade it will work against Matt Margolis.
September 22nd, 2003 at 6:54 pm
Wow, just when I thought that Dumb Yeah might have actually learned something, I find out that he’s still the same ignorant little child that we all know and hate. Wonderfull. Only this time, his comments are even more childish than before.
September 22nd, 2003 at 7:46 pm
Also if you really want to play treat the ball of cells as a seperate person game,then fine. The person is trespassing and the girl in question can do whatever she wants to someone tresspasing on her personal property
That’s cold, UY, just cold.
As a nurse, and someone who has gone through pregnancies, (1 was a miscarriage-I mourned for that BABY as much as if she had been born alive 7 months down the road)it’s not just a “ball of cells”. Did you listen in biology class? Or are you just spewing propaganda out of that pie hole of yours that the Pro-Death crowd has taught you?
Plenty of resources on the web detailing a “fetus’s” growth from conception to full-term. (with real pictures too!)
I suggest you re- educate yourself, if you dare.
September 22nd, 2003 at 10:26 pm
ms. heather–my (belated?) condolences to you.
In one sense UY is right–we do start out as a ball of cells. But hell, we’re made out of cells right now too.
[I’ve done too much reading on animal genetics recently to know this]
September 22nd, 2003 at 10:56 pm
I worship Margaret Sanger (almost as much as Hillary Clinton)!
September 22nd, 2003 at 11:00 pm
Jaws–
You’re splitting hairs, partner
That’s the scientific way of looking at it.
However, I’ve known quite a few people in my time who thought what was the big deal about induced abortion- it’s just a “blob”- until they studied it and realized that it’s a discernable human form with a beating heart at 8 weeks. (I know mine was when I miscarried)
Thanks for the condolences, btw.
September 22nd, 2003 at 11:05 pm
This is a clean blog, h.
Crawl back into that sewer from which ye came.
September 22nd, 2003 at 11:19 pm
Ah-ha! I found some intellegant life on the racist blogosphere. This Um Yeah has some scholarly instincts, rational thinking and humility. You react with extreme hostility because his wisdom creates a great threat to your small racist world.
You all are sunk. Racist, fascist, sexist homophobic Bush minions don’t have a chance! Worldly, wise and progressive persuns like myself and Um Yeah will destroy your facist fantasies!
September 22nd, 2003 at 11:54 pm
Ahh, there you are ‘h’.
We’ve got a one-way trip planned out for you… right back to Democratic Underground.
Sorry to let it escape and come bother you, Matt.
‘h’ is up there on Misha’s “idiotarian commenters”… he/she/it soils practically every thread Misha starts.
I’d advise finding a way to keep it from returning, for the sake of your own sanity.
September 22nd, 2003 at 11:58 pm
A few things-
Imagine if the girl was 17 instead of 18, and she died from an abortion gone wrong (let’s assume there was no rusty coathanger, or medical incompetence). Who would be liable? an abortion is not a risk-free procedure. Who made the decision? The 17 year old? The 17 year old is not old enough to enter into a contract. Age of consent would indicate that they are not legally competent to make the decision to get an abortion. I find it difficult to believe that a 16 or 17 year old will be capable of making sound decisions. I mean, if they are incapable of understanding that one decision could result in pregnancy, and their parents subsequently finding out, how can they be assumed to understand that another decision can result in death?
As for the story Dean related; I find it interesting that his first response upon suspecting the father of impregnating his daughter and the implied molestation, was to aid and abet by performing the procedure, and destroying evidence of the crime, instead of calling the authorities. Is this the action, or thought process of a trustworthy man?
If I cannot trust a physician to do the right thing for his 12 year old patient, how can I trust the very same man as a politician to do the right thing for America ?
September 23rd, 2003 at 2:20 am
I still believe that “h” must be a fake troll. No one is that stupid. As for Um Yeah, I believe he’s serious. However, he doesn’t use any actual intelligent arguments. All he ever does is call conservatives stupid and evil.
Um Yeah, I find your argument that a baby is a “lump of cells” and a “trespassing” being. Every person is made of cells. A young child is a “trespasser,” by your definition, because he can’t live on his own, without his parents’ help. Does this justify killing him because he’s a lump of cells and can’t live on his own? If you wouldn’t support killing a three month old baby, why would you support killing one before it’s born.
September 23rd, 2003 at 5:23 am
“Cannon, so what if it worked in 3rd grade it will work against Matt Margolis.”
Ummm Idiot you really don’t want to go down that road do you? Yes you do. OK. No Ummm Idiot it means that you never advanced beyond 3rd grade.
September 23rd, 2003 at 7:49 am
You know what I absolutely love about your little post Matt ?
How you snatch up Holly Patterson as the pattsy to support your argument because she died.
IF, however, she HADN’T died, you and all your pals would be labeling her a “disgusting baby killer”. Excuse me if I don’t quite believe in your pain and outrage at Holly’s death. Also neat how you kind of glance over the fact that, oh, yeah, she was 18 and wouldn’t fall under a parental consent law anyhow.
Give me a break. Your “argument” is no less flawed than Dean’s.
By the way, if you want to be taken seriously you might want to discourage morons like Radical Redneck from commenting so prominently. As they say, it’s better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
September 23rd, 2003 at 10:06 am
Dean’s Pro-Choice Vision
Matt Margolis has a lengthy post on Democrat and medical doctor Howard Dean’s pro-choice position. Specifically, it would seem that Dean would like for girls under the age of 18 — children, your daughters and granddaughters and nieces — to…
September 23rd, 2003 at 11:39 am
LAC,the average human is much more than a clump of cells meanwhile in the earliest stages of development when many abortions take place the fetus in question is literally a small clump of cells. And when you say live outside the body you tend to mean like can actually live for more than a few moments. This assuming if you drop a toddler off in the wilderness it will probably last a few days.
To Doc,
If I cannot trust a physician to do the right thing for his 12 year old patient, how can I trust the very same man as a politician to do the right thing for America ?
Even if that did make any sense at all, stop pretending you are going to actually consider voting for anyone but Dumbya.
September 23rd, 2003 at 12:39 pm
Um Yeah and other pro-Choice-ers,
May you never have to come face to face with the child you were responsible for aborting in the afterlife. May you never have to look at other children that are the same age as the child you aborted would have been and think about what they would be like. May you never have a child that aborts your grandchild and never tells you about it. May you never have a day so bad that you wish you had been aborted when you were a “ball of cells.” May you never understand the intricacies of developmental biology enough to realize that the baby you aborted was indeed alive and probably felt pain when he/she was aborted.
September 23rd, 2003 at 2:12 pm
Until a better alternative to Bush shows up, I will vote for Bush. I do not like that Bush is willing to sign a gun ban. I do not like that he is stopping Israel from killing Arafat. I do not like that the 9-11 report had classified excerpts that are believed to implicate Saudi Arabia. I do not like the increase in beauracracy under GWB. I do not like that we are not more aggressive in our prosecution of terrorist sympathizers like Taliban Walker.
There are a number of instances in which I find fault with Bush. However, as much as I disagree with him, the Democrats have not offered forth a candidate (so far) who is better than Bush, as oppossed to worse, and I can trust Bush to be make decisions for selfless reasons. Because I cannot trust Dean to take a morally honest decision, It only exacerbates the fact that I disagree with the policies he endorses.
If the Democrats were to put up a candidate that I could trust to make honorable choices, who I could trust to support the second ammendment, limit government government spending, cut taxes, prosecute the wars of terror with more zeal, roll back socialization of healthcare, and generally be an honorable and noble man, I would vote for them.
Trustworthiness, and selflessness should be prerequisites for the Presidential candidates. If you cannot even muster that, then any position on any issue is weaker by nature.
So, I would vote for someone besides GWB, if they are a better leader, but you will, of course, understand that I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
September 23rd, 2003 at 3:25 pm
iagofest, 3rd rate emotional appeals you cut n paste from some website don’t work on me sorry.
September 23rd, 2003 at 6:05 pm
Um Yeah picked up the fetus-as-trespasser theory as an extension of his own personal experience when, at the age of 12, he was thrown out of the house by his parents who finally got fed up with his s**t.
September 23rd, 2003 at 6:06 pm
I used to be pro-life, until I started reading Um Yeah’s s**t. He is the classic poster child for abortion.
September 23rd, 2003 at 11:29 pm
Hey Shit-tard,
Petco called, they want their gerbil farm back. Pull them out of your ass - each and every one of them.
Typical selfish leftist. They offer him one gerbil for his bus station felchfest and he takes the whole fucking farm. Habitrail too.
The football team said you were great at deep throat. Six tonsil jobs at once - even better than your mother!
September 24th, 2003 at 1:38 am
Sherard,
Holly Patterson died. I do not condone the fact that she chose to have an abortion - however, the suggest that I cannot have an opinion on parental notification (which this blog entry is about) because I’m pro-life is absurd.
Abortion is legal in this country. I did not write about this story to make a case specificallly against abortion - but about parental notification laws.
I certainly do not agree with Holly’s decision to abort her child.
I certainly do not agree with Holly’s decision to hide her pregnancy from her father (which began while she was a minor)
However, that doesn’t mean her death is not tragic.
It doesn’t mean that isn’t a terrible tragedy that her father had to bury her.
Abortion is a tragedy. Plain and simple.
You would do yourself a favor to reread my post to understand that I did call attention to the fact that Holly was 18, a legal adult (if only for a few weeks) and that parental notification laws would thus be inapplicable. If you can’t see the point I was trying to make, either you are blind or stupid.
September 24th, 2003 at 3:03 am
“LAC,the average human is much more than a clump of cells meanwhile in the earliest stages of development when many abortions take place the fetus in question is literally a small clump of cells.”
So it’s shape that determines humanity? If a person is seriously deformed, is it alright to kill them then? Is it a person’s size that determines their value? Is a 300 pound person somehow more worthy of life than a 150 pound person? Shape and size and number of cells in a person’s body shouldn’t have anything to do with whether or not they get to continue living.
“And when you say live outside the body you tend to mean like can actually live for more than a few moments. This assuming if you drop a toddler off in the wilderness it will probably last a few days.”
Okay, so? A toddler will live a few days. A fetus will live a few seconds. So what? Lets say a kid is three. Her mom is single and works to support both of them, as a janitor. In this case, you have a mother who is physically burdened by her daughter. She’s forced to work to support the life of her daughter who hasn’t the ability or knowledge to survive on her own. Even you must admit that this mother has no right to kill her daughter, and that to do so would be murder. How, then, is it different when with a three month old fetus? The mother has to physically support the child, and the child can’t live on her own.
September 24th, 2003 at 3:38 pm
LAC thats irrelevant because the point is the Toddler in question is self sustaining.
September 24th, 2003 at 7:41 pm
I’m curious, Um Yeah, what do you define as “self sustaining.”
September 24th, 2003 at 10:23 pm
Well Matt Self Sustaining as can actually breath and ingest food, And yes there are adults in comas who need respirators and feed tubes so dont even bother bringing that up.
September 24th, 2003 at 11:05 pm
Just because you say not to bring something up doesn’t mean its not a valid point. It just means you’re unwilling to address it.
September 25th, 2003 at 8:35 am
Because its a retarded point. Even if you could make a very small respirator and feeding tube it wouldnt work anyway, the fetus cannot live outside the potential mother.
September 26th, 2003 at 2:31 am
but Um yeah…it can after a certain point. the digestive sytem develops very early, and the lungs are OK at about 22 weeks. By your criteria, a 22 week old fetus is a person.
September 26th, 2003 at 12:47 pm
Um Yeah’s view points on abortion and the justification for such puts him on a similar level as the Nazis.
September 26th, 2003 at 4:06 pm
Doc more than halfway through is not very early like I said they still couldnt survive outside the mother that early.
Matt abortions were illegal under the Nazis so I guess you are closer to them than me.
September 26th, 2003 at 4:24 pm
UY, abortion was illegal only for Aryans. For other people - the less desirable, abortion was legal. In the Nazi’s attempt to create their “master race” they made abortion reserved for their enemy.
September 27th, 2003 at 11:36 pm
So it’s not as simple as whether they are capable of digestion and spontaneous respiration, is it? Well, what are your criteria for being a living person? btw, does that mean that the definition of a person changes as technology advances? or do you mean self-supportive existence? If that is the case, is someone only a person when they need no outside help- say around age ten, and everyone below such an age is a candidate for termination?
September 28th, 2003 at 10:41 am
No Doc because we already went over this. Pay attention next time.
September 29th, 2003 at 12:32 am
I won’t say much, but let me say this as a woman. If you want a baby, there is nothing better in the world. If you don’t, it is your worst nightmare. It means more than you think, don’t demonize women who don’t want to carry. If I had not had an option at 18, I would have possibly killed myself. The relief was…. huge. Never regetted it, never will. I moved on and finished school, became a good member of society, if I had dropped out and floundered and was a welfare mom still…. you would hate me. Anyway, I see both sides. I am trying to conceive now. I am almost 40, do I regret my actions back then? NO, I don’t. My life would be a low-income nightmare. We all make our choices, and do what is best as we see it at the time.
September 29th, 2003 at 5:25 am
Quiver that is very true, however the problem is (what the majority of the posters here are criticizing) from the Abortion on Demand crowd presenting abortion as a no fuss no muss simple little panacea. In and out and everything is happy ever after.
Oh btw Um whatever and h and whoever…
Dean Lied = Women Died
September 29th, 2003 at 1:34 pm
The sole issue of the legality of abortion itself is not so much the issue, but rather parental notification regarding abortions for minors. An abortion is an invasive medical procedure - a serious one at that. The mere idea that children who get pregnant should be able to get one without the knowledge and consent of their legal guardian is absurd.
In recent years, we’ve seen people organize to remove soda from public schools because it’s “not healthy”, yet, legally, a teacher or a school nurse cannot inform the parents of a minor about their daughter’s pregnancy or intentions to get an abortion?
No to Soda - Yes to Abortions?
As I mentioned in this blog entry, I couldn’t even get a simple pain reliever or antacid or whatever from the school nurse without a note from parents each individual time.
Does this make any sense?
September 29th, 2003 at 4:51 pm
Except Matt, The person who died in this case was over the age where consent laws applied.
September 30th, 2003 at 12:18 am
That is irrelevant to the argument.
The point was that abortion is not like getting your ears pierced. It’s a medical procedure. All medical procedures run the risk of complications of various kinds. The death of Holly Patterson demonstrates how things can go wrong, and just why it’s important for parents to know what’s happening to their children.
October 29th, 2003 at 3:42 pm
I ran into this page by typing in unplanned parenthood, and it said ”hiding pregnancy is harming the child” …….. First of all it’s not the companies place to tell the parents, that is up to the person carrying. Second of all, they are helping and doing what they can for the mother to be, the problem has already happened, they are helping the mother, yes abortion is wrong, and there needs to be a stop to it, but it is the mother’s choice, and if she chooses to make that choice, then let it be. From what i’ve gathered from these ”comments” is that people are worried about the mother dieing from it… You can walk outside your front door for 3 minutes and die. I honestly don’t think it’s about the mother dieing.
October 30th, 2003 at 11:12 am
At what precise point in time do you claim that a sperm and an egg (clearly not human life) become a human life worthy of all protections thereof?
The moment the first sperm contacts the egg and begins to eat away at the protective coating?
The moment the first sperm enters the egg?
The moment the first sperm releases its DNA into the egg?
The moment the DNA combines?
The moment the egg first begins to duplicate its chromosomes?
The moment the egg first divides?
The moment the duplicating egg first begins to differentiate into more than one kind of cell?
OK, that’s probably too many already. Sorry. But you get the point, I hope.
November 4th, 2003 at 10:08 pm
Most Repugnant Democrat
The Most Pro-Abortion Presidential Candidate? “The Democratic candidates for president are playing a game of one-upmanship in their attempt to…
November 7th, 2003 at 11:54 pm
The point is, for pro-choicers, life only begins when it’s convenient for them to say it does.
January 20th, 2004 at 10:49 pm
I suggest giving up on Um Yeah. Numerous times he/she has gone off on a tangent and people have tried to bring the conversation back to the issue at hand. But instead of facing the issue, he/she turns it into other things and behaves like a juvenile. Does he/she really believe that makes him/her look good? To resort to the level of name calling is to surrender your own validity. Has anyone studied logic and rhetoric that has posted? Can you explain to Um Yeah things like logical fallacies? Can someone explain that in real debating the issues are to be debated, not the person who added to the debate. Can someone explain the difference between giving a critque and expressing opposite opinions without resorting to bad-mouthing your opponent?
Is it any wonder to have the same person who puts those who are not of his opinion in the status as insignificant to see other life as insignificant…to see us as a threat to see a baby as a threat? Don’t worry about him/her. If we continue to produce comments that have rational thought behind them and he/she doesn’t, rational people will listen to us. For the irrational, they have little chance of being helped by mere mortals such as ourselves.
I critize how he/she chooses to argue, can Um Yeah do that in return? Can Um Yeah stick to the facts and the presentation of ideas and get beyond, “you are one of the conservative, religious nuts who should be muzzled” kind of attitude. It seems to me such people believe in their right to say their “truth”, but that any who go outside their “truth” is labeled, dispised, and isn’t supposed to have that same right to speak. If their “truth” is so evident, why doesn’t everyone believe it? If it can be proven without a shadow of doubt, then no right-wing propaganda can hide it. That is because we don’t have the truth. It cannot be found inside ourselves, it must be discovered, which means being open. But being open means listening, eyes open, etc. You cannot listen if you only hear what you want. You cannot see if you only see what you want.
In Phadeo, I believe it was, the scenario is given of people who are in a cave. They are looking into the darkness of the cave because they are chained that way and can’t look behind them. But that is not the real world. Their is more to the world than the cave. Just as their is more to the debate of parental notification than just whether abortion is right or not. In respnse to another commentor - Their is more to philosophy than ending an argument “but I could be run over by a bus today”. Does that excuse someone from murder. Your honor I had to kill John Doe because he had everything I want now, it might take years to get it, and I might be run over by a bus and never have it. He had it and it was my turn. Their is more to the debate than your side. Their is the rights of the parents. Their is the rights of the mothers-to-be to be told of the possible side effects. What if your doctor gave you a perscription and that medicine harmed you or killed you, but you were not warned of that. Yes you could die at any moment, but if you were shot by a bullet you would be more likely to die than a pierced ear- just as some medical procedures have higher statistics of deaths afterward than others-the higher the risk, the more urgent to notify the patient of the risk. Are all children more likely to be able to weigh their options than all their parents? Are we not allowed to decide what they should eat because they know what is best for their bodies? If we did that many infants wouldn’t make it to their first birthday.
What rights should parents have over their children? If we take away their right over the life or death of their children, except allowing them to abort their children with ignorance of the damage done, what is left?
January 25th, 2004 at 11:16 pm
Dean’s abortion story actually makes a very good point, and it is just like the typical ignorant conservative(which you are Matt) to shrug it off… even BUSH supports abortion in cases of rape or incest(which in the case of the 12 year old girl entails both) The girl was raped by her own father and you still that the father shouldve been notified that his daughter(whom he raped) was seeking an abortion???
you truly are a moron
January 26th, 2004 at 12:35 am
Mason. Dean was lying about that story. It was revealed that her father was in fact NOT the father of her child and Dean knew this when he told his story but chose to ignore it to try and make an emotionally charged argument.
Rape/incest is a criminal issue - it’s not an issue of parental notification. Dean should have called the police if he truly thought she was impregnated by her own father.
And I advise you Mason to refrain from insulting me… I strongly advise it.
January 26th, 2004 at 7:36 am
1) BULLLSHIT, is that the best excuse you can think of?
2) You are absoloutely right about that one
3) oooh i am sooooo scared………..
January 26th, 2004 at 8:45 am
1) Read this blog entry in full. It’s all in there.
2) Then Dean was wrong to not call the police instead initially, instead of thinking “Hey, this is why i don’t like parental notification”
3) You want to push me?
January 26th, 2004 at 2:22 pm
1) i dont get you. first you say that dean lied and that her father was not the father, well how the hell would you know? were you there? Than you say that it was the father and that Dean was wrong not to call the police, same thing…. were you there?
2) in cases of rape or incest do you then support abortion? yes or no?
January 26th, 2004 at 6:04 pm
Mason, Tim Russert caught Dean in the lie… read the blog entry again… it’s in english…
January 26th, 2004 at 7:02 pm
im sorry…. i looked over an obvious fact….. you people do it ALL the time….
January 26th, 2004 at 8:31 pm
Do you or Do you not support abortion in cases of rape or incest?
November 23rd, 2004 at 11:31 pm
There is un-biased medical research that proves that a fetus is able to survive outside the womb as early as 19 weeks and grow up functioning normally, too.
Roe v. Wade defined viability (and thus legal personhood) as “potentially able to live outside the mother’s womb, albeit with artificial aid.”
So, therefore, a 19 week old is a person because, if it were outside the womb, it would live. So, due to viability defining a person, 19 week old fetus’, though unborn, are people.
Thus, abortion is unconstitutional because it is ending the life (a.k.a. killing, murdering) of a PERSON, not “a lump of cells”.
Besides that though, parental notification is completely legitimate and necessary. First, most, not all, minors are incapable of making responsible decisions, which is apparent if they got pregnant in the first place. Secondly, parental notification could prevent deaths from botched abortions by allowing the parent to intervene and provide the minor with guidance and necessary emergency health care before they end up dying because they didn’t tell anyone who could help them (their parents) about the abortion. Besides receiving abortions as a minor, apparently, there are few doctor’s that will see minor patients without parents or guardians being present or notified, so why is it different with abortions? Also, say a minor girl does have an abortion, has complications, but doesn’t want to tell her parent/s? She, more than likely, will not be able to seek medical assistance on her own, as a minor, and could die due to complications from the abortion. That is why parent notification has to be implemented…for cases where abortions go wrong, but where the woman could be treated, if the problem is caught in time after the abortion.
I won’t go as far as arguing about parental permission, although I am all for it, but I do think it is in the best interest for minors and all women to notify their parents or at least one other person before they have an abortion, so that they can receive necessary, perhaps life-saving, medical attention should anything go wrong.
August 26th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
October 25th, 2006 at 2:19 am
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